Dynomotion

Group: DynoMotion Message: 403 From: bsjoelund Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Schematics
Hi Tom,

Looking in files section I can find a nice schematics as a pdf file for
Kflop - Snapamp - Brush - MPG.

Do you have such file for Kflop - Kanalog - Brush (servo amps with +-10V) - MPG?

Cheers Bengt
Group: DynoMotion Message: 404 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 6/4/2010
Subject: Re: Schematics
Bengt,
 
Sorry no I don't.  I'd love to review one from you :}
 
The MPG would be the same.
 
Thanks
TK

Group: DynoMotion Message: 406 From: bsjoelund Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Schematics
Hi Tom,
Ok, later on when I have my doc's in order.

Question, how is the Safety Charge Pump within Mach3 used/connected in KFlop/Kanalog?
Cheers Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Bengt,
>
> Sorry no I don't.  I'd love to review one from you :}
>
> The MPG would be the same.
>
> Thanks
> TK
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bsjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 2:01:54 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Schematics
>
>  
> Hi Tom,
>
> Looking in files section I can find a nice schematics as a pdf file for
> Kflop - Snapamp - Brush - MPG.
>
> Do you have such file for Kflop - Kanalog - Brush (servo amps with +-10V) - MPG?
>
> Cheers Bengt
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 408 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 6/5/2010
Subject: Re: Schematics
Hi Bengt,
 
Its not really.  One of the main purposes of KFlop is to remove the real-time requirements from the PC/Windows/Mach3.  There is no longer any "real-time" kernel interrupt happening in Windows to do it.  There is however a charge pump between KFlop and Kanalog.  The LED and "Switch Enable All" FET output on Kanalog indicates that communication is happening between KFlop and Kanalog.
 
I suppose if you feel it is necessary you could implement a "charge pump" from Mach3 using a "Brain" or something in Mach3 to toggle a virtual bit.  Then write a user program for KFlop to monitor that this bit is toggling and if not, then take some action.  The timeout would have to be long (seconds) so that if Windows hiccups it doesn't trip a fault abnormally.
 
Conversely if you have some hardware that needs a charge pump, you can generate one with a KFlop user program or simply use a KFlop PWM output.
 
Cheers
TK

Group: DynoMotion Message: 415 From: bsjoelund Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Schematics
Hi Tom,
You say MPG would be the same, all MPG's I have seen are 5V and JP6 handles 3.3V only, so how to use a 5V MPG?
Cheers Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Bengt,
>
> Sorry no I don't.  I'd love to review one from you :}
>
> The MPG would be the same.
>
> Thanks
> TK
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bsjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 2:01:54 PM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Schematics
>
>  
> Hi Tom,
>
> Looking in files section I can find a nice schematics as a pdf file for
> Kflop - Snapamp - Brush - MPG.
>
> Do you have such file for Kflop - Kanalog - Brush (servo amps with +-10V) - MPG?
>
> Cheers Bengt
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 416 From: bsjoelund Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Schematics
Hi Tom, I have added one pdf in files section. Can you be so kind and have a look at this and comment if something is wrong. Cheers Bengt.

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "bsjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
> You say MPG would be the same, all MPG's I have seen are 5V and JP6 handles 3.3V only, so how to use a 5V MPG?
> Cheers Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Bengt,
> >
> > Sorry no I don't.  I'd love to review one from you :}
> >
> > The MPG would be the same.
> >
> > Thanks
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: bsjoelund <cnc@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 2:01:54 PM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Schematics
> >
> >  
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > Looking in files section I can find a nice schematics as a pdf file for
> > Kflop - Snapamp - Brush - MPG.
> >
> > Do you have such file for Kflop - Kanalog - Brush (servo amps with +-10V) - MPG?
> >
> > Cheers Bengt
> >
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 417 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Schematics
Bengt,
 
Good point.  I noticed that also AFTER several Users had success with the wiring :}
 
But it is probably ok.  The problem with connecting 5V signals to the 3.3V inputs is that there are ESD protection clamping diodes connected from the inputs to the 3.3V power rails.  This limits the voltage on the pin to 3.3V + one diode drop (~0.5V or 3.3+0.5=3.8V).  So if you short an input pin directly to the +5V supply (ie. through a limit switch) the input will definitely blow out.  However most 5V TTL outputs do not drive all the way to +5V.  They are only required to drive above 2.8V.  And if they do they don't usually source much current.  The protection diodes are rated at clamping a max of 100ma (although its not clear to me for how long).  I think very few MPGs would put out anything near this current above 3.8V.  If you have time you might test your MPG by connecting the output to the 3.3V rail through a 10 ohm resistor and check the voltage drop across the resistor.  I'd be curious.
 
But to be totally safe you could add a 100 ohm series resistor.  (5V - 3.8V)/100ohms = 13ma max.
 
Or best of all use the LVTH245 circuit you proposed.
 
But I think you have the drive direction in the circuit wrong.  The spec says:
 
 

FUNCTION TABLE

INPUTS

OPERATION

OE DIR

 L     L     B data to A bus

 L     H     A data to B bus

 H     X      Isolation

 

I think this means that with DIR grounded the chip will drive from B to A.  So either swap your A B signals or connect DIR to 3.3V.
 
One additional minor thing is that the chip spec says:
 

NOTE 5: All unused control inputs of the device must be held at VCC or GND to ensure proper device operation. Refer to the TI application report,

Implications of Slow or Floating CMOS Inputs

, literature number SCBA004

 

So just connect the unused inputs to ground.

 

Thanks!

TK

 
 

Group: DynoMotion Message: 418 From: bsjoelund Date: 6/6/2010
Subject: Re: Schematics
Hi Tom,
After a long hicup on Yahoo I'm on line again.
I will go the safe way with LVTH245, DIR is tied to 3.3V rail and OE to GND and yes I have missed to connect the unused pins to GND. So I will replace the schematics in a moment, maybe somebody will make use of it in the future. Thanks for looking at this Tom.
Cheers Bengt


--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Bengt,
>
> Good point.  I noticed that also AFTER several Users had success with the wiring :}
>
> But it is probably ok.  The problem with connecting 5V signals to the 3.3V inputs is that there are ESD protection clamping diodes connected from the inputs to the 3.3V power rails.  This limits the voltage on the pin to 3.3V + one diode drop (~0.5V or 3.3+0.5=3.8V).  So if you short an input pin directly to the +5V supply (ie. through a limit switch) the input will definitely blow out.  However most 5V TTL outputs do not drive all the way to +5V.  They are only required to drive above 2.8V.  And if they do they don't usually source much current.  The protection diodes are rated at clamping a max of 100ma (although its not clear to me for how long).  I think very few MPGs would put out anything near this current above 3.8V.  If you have time you might test your MPG by connecting the output to the 3.3V rail through a 10 ohm resistor and check the voltage drop across the resistor.  I'd be curious.
>
> But to be totally safe you could add a 100 ohm series resistor.  (5V - 3.8V)/100ohms = 13ma max.
>
> Or best of all use the LVTH245 circuit you proposed.
>
> But I think you have the drive direction in the circuit wrong.  The spec says:
>
>
>
> FUNCTION TABLE
> INPUTS
> OPERATION
> OE DIR L     L     B data to A bus
>  L     H     A data to B bus
>  H     X      Isolation
>
> I think this means that with DIR grounded the chip will drive from B to A.  So either swap your A B signals or connect DIR to 3.3V.
>
> One additional minor thing is that the chip spec says:
>  
> NOTE 5: All unused control inputs of the device must be held at VCC or GND to ensure proper device operation. Refer to the TI application report,Implications of Slow or Floating CMOS Inputs
>  
> So just connect the unused inputs to ground.
>  
> Thanks!
> TK, literature number SCBA004
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: bsjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 5:56:14 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Schematics
>
>  
> Hi Tom,
> You say MPG would be the same, all MPG's I have seen are 5V and JP6 handles 3.3V only, so how to use a 5V MPG?
> Cheers Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Bengt,
> >
> > Sorry no I don't.  I'd love to review one from you :}
> >
> > The MPG would be the same.
> >
> > Thanks
> > TK
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: bsjoelund <cnc@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Fri, June 4, 2010 2:01:54 PM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Schematics
> >
> >  
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > Looking in files section I can find a nice schematics as a pdf file for
> > Kflop - Snapamp - Brush - MPG.
> >
> > Do you have such file for Kflop - Kanalog - Brush (servo amps with +-10V) - MPG?
> >
> > Cheers Bengt
> >
>
Group: DynoMotion Message: 428 From: bsjoelund Date: 6/10/2010
Subject: Re: Schematics
Hi,
Here some news, a small PCB is designed ready for isolation milling. http://elektronikforumet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43114&p=583019#p583019
Cheers Bengt