Dynomotion

Group: DynoMotion Message: 8525 From: Toby Rule Date: 10/24/2013
Subject: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter

Hi Tom,

 

I am trying to use a KFLOP on a USB hub with a USB serial adapter.  When both the KFLOP and the serial adapter are plugged in, KMotion will not connect to the KFLOP.  But if the serial adapter is initially unplugged, KFlop connects, and then the serial adapter is plugged in, then everything works fine. 

 

Have you seen any issues like this, and do you know of any solutions?  We would prefer to continue using the hub, because it allows connecting several peripherals to the control PC (which may be a laptop) with a single cable.

 

My approach will probably be to try some different serial adapters with some different hubs and see if other combinations work.

 

Thanks,

 

Toby

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Group: DynoMotion Message: 8527 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 10/24/2013
Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter
Hi Toby,

In the past we have had problems with other FTDI USB devices in the system (like serial adapters).  It ends up being like multiple KFLOPs in the system and when board 0 is selected it selects the first one which is based on the order they were detected and such.

I thought that we fixed this by ignoring FTDI devices that don't have KFLOP (or KMotion or Dynomotion) in the description.  Check in the Device Manager and see what the description for the Serial Adapter is.

But a woraround might be to open the board using a USB Descripter.  This is tied to a specific USB plug and will never change.  See:

http://dynomotion.com/Help/MultipleBoards.htm

Regards
TK


Group: DynoMotion Message: 8919 From: Toby Rule Date: 1/23/2014
Subject: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter
Attachments :

    Hi Tom,

     

    I am finally getting around to implementing a fix for this issue.

     

    Can I use the USB Location Identifier when connecting using the following method:

     

    KMotion_dotNet.KM_Controller kmcontroller = new KMotion_dotNet.KM_Controller(usbLocationId);

     

    Is there a  dotNet way to get a list of USB location ID’s?  Or do I need to call  the native function?

     

    Thanks,

     

    Toby

     

    Group: DynoMotion Message: 8920 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 1/23/2014
    Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter
    Hi Toby,

    Yes you should be able to pass the USB ID to create the controller object as you show.

    See the GetBoards member function:

            /// <summary>
            /// Get Boards checks the list of connected board locations and returns the total board count
            /// </summary>
            /// <param name="numberofboards">returned total board count</param>
            /// <returns>array of USB locations for all boards</returns>
            public int[] GetBoards(out int numberofboards)
            { 
                try
                {
                    int[] list = new int[256];
                    numberofboards = 0;
                    int boards = -1;
                    KM_dotnet_Interop_ListLocations(_InstanceHandle, ref boards, ref  list[0]);
                    numberofboards = (int)boards;
                    return list;
                }

    Regards
    TK

    Group: DynoMotion Message: 8927 From: Toby Rule Date: 1/23/2014
    Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter [2 Attachments]
    Attachments :

       Hi Tom, 

       

      Thanks for the info.  But it looks like this isn't going to work.  

       

      When both the usb-to-serial adapter and the KFLOP are connected to the hub, KMotion will not connect to the KFLOP. Here is how I tested:

       

      KMotion 4.31F

      FTDI comm port adapter drivers were the latest available on website - 2.08.30

      Dynomotion driver 2.8.14

      KFLOP FTDI drivers – 2.8.30.9

      Behavior was observed with two different serial adapters (different brands, same chipset)

       

      ·         KFLOP has external power supply.

      ·         PC has both USB-Serial adapter and KFlop connected. 

      ·         Launch KMotion

      ·         KMotion reports board is DISCONNECTED.  No boards listed under “USB Locations”

      ·         Disconnect/reconnect the KFLOP.  Still reports DISCONNECTED.

      ·         Disconnect USB-Serial adapter.  CONNECTED, Board 0@ 0x0.  

      ·         Reconnect serial adapter.  KFLOP stil CONNECTED.  "USB Locations" shows Board 1 @ 0xFFFFFFFF.  

      ·         After a few seconds, Board 1 disappears

      ·         Shut down and re-started KMotion – DISCONNECTED.

      ·         Shut down KMotion

      ·         Unplugged serial adapter

      ·         Reconnected serial adapter

      ·         Launched KMotion – DISCONNECTED

       

      In my application, I tried:

      kmcontroller = new KMotion_dotNet.KM_Controller(0x0);

      This threw an exception in the case where the serial adapter was plugged in first.  

       

      In the application, I tried

      int[] boards = kmcontroller.GetBoards(out numberOfBoards);

      numberOfBoards return 0.   So it’s not seeing the KMotion at all.

       

      In the state where KMotion doesn't connect, both devices (KFLOP and serial adapter) appear in device manager, and appear to be working properly.

       

      I really need to get this issue fixed, either by changing the machine configuration so it works with both devices, or else change to a non-FTDI serial driver. 

       

      Regards,

      Toby

       

       

       

      Group: DynoMotion Message: 8929 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 1/23/2014
      Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter
      Hi Toby,

      I don't understand why you are having the problem or would need to specify the USB Location.

      It is true that the low level FTDI driver will list a mixture of Dynomotion Boards mixed with other devices that use an FTDI chip.  But KMotionDLL should only report back devices from the List where the device description contains "Dynomotion", "KFLOP",  or "KMotion" within it.

      With the two devices connected and looking in Device manager what are the descriptions for the two devices?

      Below is the code section that checks the descriptions.  I don't have a way of reproducing the problem.  Would it be possible for you to debug this?  Set a breakpoint in the code below.  You would need to setup Visual studio to debug KMotionServer with the breakpoint set.  Then launch KMotion.exe (or anything that would try to connect) and the breakpoint should be encountered.



                          ftStatus = FT_GetDeviceInfo(
                                ftHandle,
                                &ftDevice,
                                &deviceID,
                                SerialNumber,
                                Description,
                                NULL
                                );

                          if (ftStatus == FT_OK)
                          {
                              FT_Close(ftHandle);

                              if (strstr(Description,"KFLOP")== NULL &&
                                  strstr(Description,"KMotion")== NULL &&
                                  strstr(Description,"Dynomotion")== NULL)
                              {
                                  // remove it from the list
                                  for (int k=i+1; k<*nlocations; k++)
                                      list[k-1] = list[k];  // shift up
                                  (*nlocations)--;
                                  i--; // redo this slot since it was deleted and things shifted up
                              }
                          }


      Regards
      TK

      Group: DynoMotion Message: 8931 From: Toby Rule Date: 1/23/2014
      Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter [2 Attachments]
      Attachments :

        I’ll give this a try and report back.

         

        Group: DynoMotion Message: 8933 From: Toby Rule Date: 1/23/2014
        Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter [2 Attachments]
        Attachments :
          Hi Tom,

          In Device Manager list - The boards appear as "KFLOP - Motion Controller 4.XX" and "USB Serial Converter"

          I attached the debugger to KMotionServer.exe while my code was running.
          With both KFLOP and serial converter connected, nlocations == 2 and it goes through "for (i=0; i<*nlocations; i++)" loop twice.  After the FT_GetDeviceInfo function call, on both loops, I see the same return values:

          SerialNumber = 0x03cfdaa8 "A6018T3N" Description = 0x03cfdab8 "FT232R USB UART" deviceID = 67330049 ftDevice = 5

          If I have only the serial adapter connected, then nlocations == 1 and I see the same values.  
          If I have only the KFLOP connected, I get nlocations == 1, but of course it never hits FT_getDeviceInfo.

          If I connect the kflop, launch the program, and then connect the serial adapter (everything works correctly in this case) then nlocations = 2, but it never hits FT_getDeviceInfo.   

          Does this tell you anything?  Is there anything else you would like me to test?

          Thanks,

          Toby

          Group: DynoMotion Message: 8934 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 1/23/2014
          Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter
          Hi Toby,

          That is great data thanks.

          But it still doesn't make sense.  I don't know why you say:

          If I have only the KFLOP connected, I get nlocations == 1, but of course it never hits FT_getDeviceInfo.

          With one device it should get the device info and verify that it is a KFLOP

          On my system with one KFLOP connected I get nlocations == 1 and it calls FT_getDeviceInfo and gets:

          SerialNumber = "KFQTSNKS" Description = "KFLOP - Motion Controller" deviceID = 67367473 ftDevice = 5

          Oh I think I remember a quirk with the FTDI List Devices request in that if the device is already open then the data in the list for that device is garbage (or actually just not filled in).   That is the reason for filling the list with all values of -1. 

          I think your method of attaching after your application is running would already have the KFLOP device open.

          Sorry I don't understand what is going on.  Please repeat the test but run KMotionServer before your App and attach and set the breakpoint before any devices are opened.

          Regards
          TK

          From: Toby Rule <trule@...>
          To: "DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com" <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2014 3:14 PM
          Subject: RE: [DynoMotion] KFLOP with USB Serial adapter

           
          Hi Tom,

          In Device Manager list - The boards appear as "KFLOP - Motion Controller 4.XX" and "USB Serial Converter"

          I attached the debugger to KMotionServer.exe while my code was running.
          With both KFLOP and serial converter connected, nlocations == 2 and it goes through "for (i=0; i<*nlocations; i++)" loop twice.  After the FT_GetDeviceInfo function call, on both loops, I see the same return values:

          SerialNumber = 0x03cfdaa8 "A6018T3N" Description = 0x03cfdab8 "FT232R USB UART" deviceID = 67330049 ftDevice = 5

          If I have only the serial adapter connected, then nlocations == 1 and I see the same values.  
          If I have only the KFLOP connected, I get nlocations == 1, but of course it never hits FT_getDeviceInfo.

          If I connect the kflop, launch the program, and then connect the serial adapter (everything works correctly in this case) then nlocations = 2, but it never hits FT_getDeviceInfo.   

          Does this tell you anything?  Is there anything else you would like me to test?

          Thanks,

          Toby

          Group: DynoMotion Message: 8937 From: Toby Rule Date: 1/24/2014
          Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter [2 Attachments]
          Attachments :

             Hi Tom,


            I launched KMotionServer before launching the application.  I  set breakpoints after FT_GetDeviceInfo in KmotionIO.cpp and KMotionDLL_Direct.cpp


            With just the KFLOP connected, it breaks in KMotionIO.cpp.  

            numdevs = 1

            ftHandle = 0x004f1228 ftDevice = 5 deviceID = 67367473 SerialNumber = 0x02b1d5e4 "KFTFE1OY" Description = 0x02b1d59c "KFLOP - Motion Controller"


            With both devices (KFLOP and serial adapter) connected - Breaks in KMotionIO

            numdeves=2

            I get the following results both times through the loop.

            ftHandle = 0x02561228 ftDevice = 5 deviceID = 67330049 SerialNumber = 0x0292d5e4 "A6018T3N" Description = 0x0292d59c "FT232R USB UART"


            I noticed that with both devices connected, after FT_ListDevices is called, the first two elements of the list array are 0,0.  Are these board identifiers?  I would expect them to be different. 


            Regards,


            Toby


             

            Group: DynoMotion Message: 8942 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 1/24/2014
            Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter
            Hi Toby,

            After calling FT_ListDevices the list should contain the USB IDs of the devices.  If I connect two KFLOPS I see two valid USB ID numbers in the list.

            So yours are both zero?  But with only one device attached it is correct??

            Regards
            TK

            Group: DynoMotion Message: 8943 From: Toby Rule Date: 1/24/2014
            Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter [2 Attachments]
            Attachments :

              With One device – a KFLOP – attached, one of the list items is zero, the rest are -1.  I assume this is correct? It works properly, anyway.

              With TWO devices attached – one KFLOP and one usb adapter – the first two items in the list are zero, the rest are -1.

               

              Group: DynoMotion Message: 8945 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 1/24/2014
              Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter
              Hi Toby,

              I found this app note which probably applies to USB Locations also.  But it seems like it should show KFLOP properly and not just a zero.

              http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Knowledgebase/index.html?whyismydevicenotdetected.htm

              Could there be something on your system thinking KFLOP is a serial port and opening it?

              Is something opening your serial port?

              Regards
              TK

              Group: DynoMotion Message: 8946 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 1/24/2014
              Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter
              Hi Toby,

              I suppose zero is a valid USB Descripter ID but it is unlikely.  Try plugging KFLOP into a different USB slot.  It should not be zero then for sure.

              Regards
              TK

              Group: DynoMotion Message: 8949 From: Toby Rule Date: 1/24/2014
              Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter [2 Attachments]
              Attachments :

                I noticed that when I was testing using KMotion, and I plugged the KFLOP into different slots on the PC, and on an external hub, KMotion always reported zero board number under “USB Locations”.  This seemed to contradict your MultipleBoards.htm help document.  However, KFlop still worked correctly, as long as the serial converter wasn’t plugged in when KMotion launched. So, it seems that the USB device number is the telltale symptom.

                 

                I’ll try with different computers and see how it acts.   Maybe it is a driver problem, or a problem with the USB controller?  I know it’s not just my PC, because my co-worker reported similar problems at another site.

                 

                Thanks for your help with this.  I think this kind of interaction makes a good case for open-source device libraries.  It would be nice to set a breakpoint in FTD2XX.dll.

                 

                Toby

                 

                Group: DynoMotion Message: 8955 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 1/24/2014
                Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter
                Hi Toby,

                FYI I tried plugging one KFLOP into a USB Hub and a second direct and I see two valid non-zero numbers:

                0x2163
                0x2114

                Regards
                TK


                Group: DynoMotion Message: 9010 From: Toby Rule Date: 1/27/2014
                Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter [2 Attachments]
                Attachments :

                  Hi Tom,

                   

                  OK, I have some more information.  I found that the issue with reporting 0x0 Location ID only occurs on the USB 3.0 ports.  On USB 2.0 ports, the correct ID is reported, and the KFLOP and serial adapter work correctly. 

                   

                  I found this on StackOverflow.  Apparently, I  just have to avoid USB 3.0 ports on Windows 7?   http://stackoverflow.com/questions/14469218/opening-an-ftdi-device-based-on-bus-location-id

                   

                  I may try a serial adapter based on the Prolific chipset, although these don’t seem to have as good a reputation as FTDI.

                   

                  Toby

                   

                  Group: DynoMotion Message: 9015 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 1/27/2014
                  Subject: Re: KFLOP with USB Serial adapter
                  Hi Toby,

                  Thanks for the info.  I wonder if we could work around this issue by obtaining a list of Serial Numbers instead of USB Locations?  Then go through the Descriptions and if there is only one KFLOP and the Caller requested board zero then just use that one.

                  Regards
                  TK