--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>  
> Obviously you having a shift in the X direction as a function of either Z position or Time.  What if you repeat the pocket say 5 times?  Does the position keep shifting more and more?  Or does everything repeat exactly the same (no material is removed on pockets 2-5)? 
>  
> If the Z axis was not mechanically orthogonal to the X axis you would see an effect like this.  But this would be a pretty large angle to cause that much shift.
>  
> A second test would be to observe the KMotion Axis Screen during each circle (a square pocket would make this easier).  Check if the commanded Destinations and Measured Positions are shifting or not.  This would isolate the problem from the higher software (ie Mach3 and Trajectory Planning) vs something in the hardware (ie encoder).
>  
>  
> Regards
> TK
>  
>
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:01 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Backlash
>
>
>  
> Hi Tom,
>
> I doubt that there is a problem with backlash as I get same odd behaviour with or without backlash activated in Mach3.
>
> This occurs when I am cutting a circular pocket. Let us assume I want to cut 50mm diameter. Feeding Z down in say 2mm steps. What I get in Y axis is more or less 100% correct but X axis is moving X/Y zero point something like 0.35mm towards X- for each step. So the resulting hole is at X- side with a correct 90 degree wall but on X+ it slopes down.
>
> I uploaded one picture into my folder hole.jpg where this odd behaviour can clearly be seen.
>
> Do you have any idea what is going on here and perhaps a remedy to fix this?
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>

On 9/13/2012 12:48 PM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
> Hi Tom,
> Will do some more detailed tests as soon I get the part done I have on the machine right now, need to do a final boring and drill 2 holes before I can start playing around. Need to find another boring head as my small Wohlhauper does not go as far as needed in radius. Hopefully I can get these tests done during the weekend.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>> Hi Bengt,
>> Â
>> Obviously you having a shift in the X direction as a function of either Z position or Time. What if you repeat the pocket say 5 times? Does the position keep shifting more and more? Or does everything repeat exactly the same (no material is removed on pockets 2-5)?Â
>> Â
>> If the Z axis was not mechanically orthogonal to the X axis you would see an effect like this. But this would be a pretty large angle to cause that much shift.
>> Â
>> A second test would be to observe the KMotion Axis Screen during each circle (a square pocket would make this easier). Check if the commanded Destinations and Measured Positions are shifting or not. This would isolate the problem from the higher software (ie Mach3 and Trajectory Planning) vs something in the hardware (ie encoder).
>> Â
>> Â
>> Regards
>> TK
>> Â
>>
>> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
>> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:01 AM
>> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Backlash
>>
>>
>> Â
>> Hi Tom,
>>
>> I doubt that there is a problem with backlash as I get same odd behaviour with or without backlash activated in Mach3.
>>
>> This occurs when I am cutting a circular pocket. Let us assume I want to cut 50mm diameter. Feeding Z down in say 2mm steps. What I get in Y axis is more or less 100% correct but X axis is moving X/Y zero point something like 0.35mm towards X- for each step. So the resulting hole is at X- side with a correct 90 degree wall but on X+ it slopes down.
>>
>> I uploaded one picture into my folder hole.jpg where this odd behaviour can clearly be seen.
>>
>> Do you have any idea what is going on here and perhaps a remedy to fix this?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Bengt
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Lee Studley <indigo_red@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
> I like to see the pictures and **video(s) of your mill. You've done a
> great job from what I've seen. -Lee Studley
>
>
> On 9/13/2012 12:48 PM, Bengt Sjoelund wrote:
> > Hi Tom,
> > Will do some more detailed tests as soon I get the part done I have on the machine right now, need to do a final boring and drill 2 holes before I can start playing around. Need to find another boring head as my small Wohlhauper does not go as far as needed in radius. Hopefully I can get these tests done during the weekend.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >> Hi Bengt,
> >> Â
> >> Obviously you having a shift in the X direction as a function of either Z position or Time. What if you repeat the pocket say 5 times? Does the position keep shifting more and more? Or does everything repeat exactly the same (no material is removed on pockets 2-5)?Â
> >> Â
> >> If the Z axis was not mechanically orthogonal to the X axis you would see an effect like this. But this would be a pretty large angle to cause that much shift.
> >> Â
> >> A second test would be to observe the KMotion Axis Screen during each circle (a square pocket would make this easier). Check if the commanded Destinations and Measured Positions are shifting or not. This would isolate the problem from the higher software (ie Mach3 and Trajectory Planning) vs something in the hardware (ie encoder).
> >> Â
> >> Â
> >> Regards
> >> TK
> >> Â
> >>
> >> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> >> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> >> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:01 AM
> >> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Backlash
> >>
> >>
> >> Â
> >> Hi Tom,
> >>
> >> I doubt that there is a problem with backlash as I get same odd behaviour with or without backlash activated in Mach3.
> >>
> >> This occurs when I am cutting a circular pocket. Let us assume I want to cut 50mm diameter. Feeding Z down in say 2mm steps. What I get in Y axis is more or less 100% correct but X axis is moving X/Y zero point something like 0.35mm towards X- for each step. So the resulting hole is at X- side with a correct 90 degree wall but on X+ it slopes down.
> >>
> >> I uploaded one picture into my folder hole.jpg where this odd behaviour can clearly be seen.
> >>
> >> Do you have any idea what is going on here and perhaps a remedy to fix this?
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Bengt
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>  
> Obviously you having a shift in the X direction as a function of either Z position or Time.  What if you repeat the pocket say 5 times?  Does the position keep shifting more and more?  Or does everything repeat exactly the same (no material is removed on pockets 2-5)? 
>  
> If the Z axis was not mechanically orthogonal to the X axis you would see an effect like this.  But this would be a pretty large angle to cause that much shift.
>  
> A second test would be to observe the KMotion Axis Screen during each circle (a square pocket would make this easier).  Check if the commanded Destinations and Measured Positions are shifting or not.  This would isolate the problem from the higher software (ie Mach3 and Trajectory Planning) vs something in the hardware (ie encoder).
>  
>  
> Regards
> TK
>  
>
> From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@...>
> To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:01 AM
> Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Backlash
>
>
>  
> Hi Tom,
>
> I doubt that there is a problem with backlash as I get same odd behaviour with or without backlash activated in Mach3.
>
> This occurs when I am cutting a circular pocket. Let us assume I want to cut 50mm diameter. Feeding Z down in say 2mm steps. What I get in Y axis is more or less 100% correct but X axis is moving X/Y zero point something like 0.35mm towards X- for each step. So the resulting hole is at X- side with a correct 90 degree wall but on X+ it slopes down.
>
> I uploaded one picture into my folder hole.jpg where this odd behaviour can clearly be seen.
>
> Do you have any idea what is going on here and perhaps a remedy to fix this?
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
> Will do some more detailed tests as soon I get the part done I have on the machine right now, need to do a final boring and drill 2 holes before I can start playing around. Need to find another boring head as my small Wohlhauper does not go as far as needed in radius. Hopefully I can get these tests done during the weekend.
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bengt,
> >  
> > Obviously you having a shift in the X direction as a function of either Z position or Time.  What if you repeat the pocket say 5 times?  Does the position keep shifting more and more?  Or does everything repeat exactly the same (no material is removed on pockets 2-5)? 
> >  
> > If the Z axis was not mechanically orthogonal to the X axis you would see an effect like this.  But this would be a pretty large angle to cause that much shift.
> >  
> > A second test would be to observe the KMotion Axis Screen during each circle (a square pocket would make this easier).  Check if the commanded Destinations and Measured Positions are shifting or not.  This would isolate the problem from the higher software (ie Mach3 and Trajectory Planning) vs something in the hardware (ie encoder).
> >  
> >  
> > Regards
> > TK
> >  
> >
> > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:01 AM
> > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Backlash
> >
> >
> >  
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > I doubt that there is a problem with backlash as I get same odd behaviour with or without backlash activated in Mach3.
> >
> > This occurs when I am cutting a circular pocket. Let us assume I want to cut 50mm diameter. Feeding Z down in say 2mm steps. What I get in Y axis is more or less 100% correct but X axis is moving X/Y zero point something like 0.35mm towards X- for each step. So the resulting hole is at X- side with a correct 90 degree wall but on X+ it slopes down.
> >
> > I uploaded one picture into my folder hole.jpg where this odd behaviour can clearly be seen.
> >
> > Do you have any idea what is going on here and perhaps a remedy to fix this?
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
>

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> In my folder I just uploaded 2 pictures 20mm square + 30mm holes.
>
> First is 20mm square with MDI and is very close 20.01
> Second is code run via Wizards Rectangular Pocket slightly bigger.
> Milled in steps of 2mm and no sign of stairs!
>
> 30mm Holes are run with wizard Circular Pocket and as you can see these are not to dimension.
> First is run so FeedRate is set via wizard to 400mm
> The second is edit to run at 150mm in code + 300% Feed override and you can clearly see taht the hole is bigger and not circular.
> Conclusion, something is not OK in Mach trajectory planner.
> I run .038 I belive in my machine in the shop.
>
> What I have done today is to run each axis and commanded distance is OK. There was a small errar as regards steps/unit that is now corrected and run several times. Also I did as last effort on X axis was to dismantle the end bearing that I cleaned up and relubricated, so if there was some backlash I cannot see anything like it now so no need to have any compensation.
>
> I also did some exess lubrication cycles to be certain that all ways and ballscrews has oil, from time to time I can hear some growling when X changes direction. As the machine has not been used for many years there might be some unwanted friction here and there. So I need to run the machine more often and waste some good guideway oil to get the old machine oiled properly.
>
> What really puzzels me is that the staircase phenomena is all gone, so go figure what that was - gremlins perhaps?
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Tom,
> > Will do some more detailed tests as soon I get the part done I have on the machine right now, need to do a final boring and drill 2 holes before I can start playing around. Need to find another boring head as my small Wohlhauper does not go as far as needed in radius. Hopefully I can get these tests done during the weekend.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Bengt,
> > >  
> > > Obviously you having a shift in the X direction as a function of either Z position or Time.  What if you repeat the pocket say 5 times?  Does the position keep shifting more and more?  Or does everything repeat exactly the same (no material is removed on pockets 2-5)? 
> > >  
> > > If the Z axis was not mechanically orthogonal to the X axis you would see an effect like this.  But this would be a pretty large angle to cause that much shift.
> > >  
> > > A second test would be to observe the KMotion Axis Screen during each circle (a square pocket would make this easier).  Check if the commanded Destinations and Measured Positions are shifting or not.  This would isolate the problem from the higher software (ie Mach3 and Trajectory Planning) vs something in the hardware (ie encoder).
> > >  
> > >  
> > > Regards
> > > TK
> > >  
> > >
> > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:01 AM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Backlash
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > I doubt that there is a problem with backlash as I get same odd behaviour with or without backlash activated in Mach3.
> > >
> > > This occurs when I am cutting a circular pocket. Let us assume I want to cut 50mm diameter. Feeding Z down in say 2mm steps. What I get in Y axis is more or less 100% correct but X axis is moving X/Y zero point something like 0.35mm towards X- for each step. So the resulting hole is at X- side with a correct 90 degree wall but on X+ it slopes down.
> > >
> > > I uploaded one picture into my folder hole.jpg where this odd behaviour can clearly be seen.
> > >
> > > Do you have any idea what is going on here and perhaps a remedy to fix this?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> >
>

 

Hi Tom,

Made another test as regards FRO, in the wizard I did set feedrate to 900 and then running only at 50% gives same too big hole as the other FRO test I did yesterday.

Cheers
Bengt

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> In my folder I just uploaded 2 pictures 20mm square + 30mm holes.
>
> First is 20mm square with MDI and is very close 20.01
> Second is code run via Wizards Rectangular Pocket slightly bigger.
> Milled in steps of 2mm and no sign of stairs!
>
> 30mm Holes are run with wizard Circular Pocket and as you can see these are not to dimension.
> First is run so FeedRate is set via wizard to 400mm
> The second is edit to run at 150mm in code + 300% Feed override and you can clearly see taht the hole is bigger and not circular.
> Conclusion, something is not OK in Mach trajectory planner.
> I run .038 I belive in my machine in the shop.
>
> What I have done today is to run each axis and commanded distance is OK. There was a small errar as regards steps/unit that is now corrected and run several times. Also I did as last effort on X axis was to dismantle the end bearing that I cleaned up and relubricated, so if there was some backlash I cannot see anything like it now so no need to have any compensation.
>
> I also did some exess lubrication cycles to be certain that all ways and ballscrews has oil, from time to time I can hear some growling when X changes direction. As the machine has not been used for many years there might be some unwanted friction here and there. So I need to run the machine more often and waste some good guideway oil to get the old machine oiled properly.
>
> What really puzzels me is that the staircase phenomena is all gone, so go figure what that was - gremlins perhaps?
>
> Cheers
> Bengt
>
>
> --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Tom,
> > Will do some more detailed tests as soon I get the part done I have on the machine right now, need to do a final boring and drill 2 holes before I can start playing around. Need to find another boring head as my small Wohlhauper does not go as far as needed in radius. Hopefully I can get these tests done during the weekend.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Bengt,
> > >  
> > > Obviously you having a shift in the X direction as a function of either Z position or Time.  What if you repeat the pocket say 5 times?  Does the position keep shifting more and more?  Or does everything repeat exactly the same (no material is removed on pockets 2-5)? 
> > >  
> > > If the Z axis was not mechanically orthogonal to the X axis you would see an effect like this.  But this would be a pretty large angle to cause that much shift.
> > >  
> > > A second test would be to observe the KMotion Axis Screen during each circle (a square pocket would make this easier).  Check if the commanded Destinations and Measured Positions are shifting or not.  This would isolate the problem from the higher software (ie Mach3 and Trajectory Planning) vs something in the hardware (ie encoder).
> > >  
> > >  
> > > Regards
> > > TK
> > >  
> > >
> > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:01 AM
> > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Backlash
> > >
> > >
> > >  
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > I doubt that there is a problem with backlash as I get same odd behaviour with or without backlash activated in Mach3.
> > >
> > > This occurs when I am cutting a circular pocket. Let us assume I want to cut 50mm diameter. Feeding Z down in say 2mm steps. What I get in Y axis is more or less 100% correct but X axis is moving X/Y zero point something like 0.35mm towards X- for each step. So the resulting hole is at X- side with a correct 90 degree wall but on X+ it slopes down.
> > >
> > > I uploaded one picture into my folder hole.jpg where this odd behaviour can clearly be seen.
> > >
> > > Do you have any idea what is going on here and perhaps a remedy to fix this?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> >
>

--- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, TK <tk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bengt,
>
> So are you saying above a certain feed rate you have a problem?
>
> Set your Max Following Error to a small enough value to be sure your servo is accurate enough not to be the problem.
>
> Also determine if the axis is drifting by going back to a known location before and after a test to see if the position repeats.
>
> TK
>
> On Sep 16, 2012, at 12:41 PM, "bsjoelund" <cnc@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi Tom,
> >
> > Made another test as regards FRO, in the wizard I did set feedrate to 900 and then running only at 50% gives same too big hole as the other FRO test I did yesterday.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Bengt
> >
> > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Tom,
> > >
> > > In my folder I just uploaded 2 pictures 20mm square + 30mm holes.
> > >
> > > First is 20mm square with MDI and is very close 20.01
> > > Second is code run via Wizards Rectangular Pocket slightly bigger.
> > > Milled in steps of 2mm and no sign of stairs!
> > >
> > > 30mm Holes are run with wizard Circular Pocket and as you can see these are not to dimension.
> > > First is run so FeedRate is set via wizard to 400mm
> > > The second is edit to run at 150mm in code + 300% Feed override and you can clearly see taht the hole is bigger and not circular.
> > > Conclusion, something is not OK in Mach trajectory planner.
> > > I run .038 I belive in my machine in the shop.
> > >
> > > What I have done today is to run each axis and commanded distance is OK. There was a small errar as regards steps/unit that is now corrected and run several times. Also I did as last effort on X axis was to dismantle the end bearing that I cleaned up and relubricated, so if there was some backlash I cannot see anything like it now so no need to have any compensation.
> > >
> > > I also did some exess lubrication cycles to be certain that all ways and ballscrews has oil, from time to time I can hear some growling when X changes direction. As the machine has not been used for many years there might be some unwanted friction here and there. So I need to run the machine more often and waste some good guideway oil to get the old machine oiled properly.
> > >
> > > What really puzzels me is that the staircase phenomena is all gone, so go figure what that was - gremlins perhaps?
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Bengt
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, "Bengt Sjoelund" <cnc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > Will do some more detailed tests as soon I get the part done I have on the machine right now, need to do a final boring and drill 2 holes before I can start playing around. Need to find another boring head as my small Wohlhauper does not go as far as needed in radius. Hopefully I can get these tests done during the weekend.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Bengt
> > > >
> > > > --- In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, Tom Kerekes <tk@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Bengt,
> > > > > Â
> > > > > Obviously you having a shift in the X direction as a function of either Z position or Time. What if you repeat the pocket say 5 times? Does the position keep shifting more and more? Or does everything repeat exactly the same (no material is removed on pockets 2-5)?Â
> > > > > Â
> > > > > If the Z axis was not mechanically orthogonal to the X axis you would see an effect like this. But this would be a pretty large angle to cause that much shift.
> > > > > Â
> > > > > A second test would be to observe the KMotion Axis Screen during each circle (a square pocket would make this easier). Check if the commanded Destinations and Measured Positions are shifting or not. This would isolate the problem from the higher software (ie Mach3 and Trajectory Planning) vs something in the hardware (ie encoder).
> > > > > Â
> > > > > Â
> > > > > Regards
> > > > > TK
> > > > > Â
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Bengt Sjoelund <cnc@>
> > > > > To: DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2012 10:01 AM
> > > > > Subject: [DynoMotion] Re: Backlash
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Â
> > > > > Hi Tom,
> > > > >
> > > > > I doubt that there is a problem with backlash as I get same odd behaviour with or without backlash activated in Mach3.
> > > > >
> > > > > This occurs when I am cutting a circular pocket. Let us assume I want to cut 50mm diameter. Feeding Z down in say 2mm steps. What I get in Y axis is more or less 100% correct but X axis is moving X/Y zero point something like 0.35mm towards X- for each step. So the resulting hole is at X- side with a correct 90 degree wall but on X+ it slopes down.
> > > > >
> > > > > I uploaded one picture into my folder hole.jpg where this odd behaviour can clearly be seen.
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you have any idea what is going on here and perhaps a remedy to fix this?
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Bengt
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>